'Criticism no longer offends me'

Indian-born spiritual guru to Hollywood stars, Deepak Chopra says biologist Richard Dawkins calling his work 'hocus pocus' doesn't bother him

There is cosmopolitan restlessness at the Bayerischer Hof hotel of Munich. The conference entitled, Digital Life Design has just started and Deepak Chopra is one of the speakers. Chopra, who has created an empire worth billions with his teachings of alternative medicine and is regarded almost a guru in Hollywood, has taken place on a sofa and spreads the polite and patient atmosphere of a doctor, who knows about every ailment.
He wears a pullover and a scarf. One little sign of extravagance: there are tiny sparkling stones on his
glasses.

Deepak Chopra at the The Starlite Charity Gala at the Villa Padierna
hotel in Marbella in 2010. Spanish actor Antonio Banderas co-hosted the
event where Chopra received the 2010 Humanitarian Starlite Award.
Pic/AFP Photo

What is that sensor thing in your hand?
It's a fitbit. It is a device that measures whether I do my daily amount of sports of one hour, how many steps I take, how many calories I eat, how much sleep I get. In the night I even wear a headband that registers my dreams and my deep sleep phase. I am fascinated by human biology.

And modern technology?
The feedback that we get from modern technology. Feedback is the best way to change habits.

You are the guru of the stars. Lady Gaga calls you the most influential person in her life. You used to be friends with Michael Jackson for twenty years. By the way, did you know that you can see a Michael-Jackson-pilgrimage cultivated by fans from this window?
Of course, I went there last night. Fantastic. Yes, Michael was an amazing person, a genius and -- just as many other artists -- a tortured soul.

Do stars suffer more than usual people?
Very successful people are driven by insecurity. I tell them that it's no problem because otherwise they would lack the incentive. Because insecurity is a strong driving force. Yes, I believe that celebrities suffer more.

I thought that that was a big terrible cliche.
Not at all. Celebrities are taken by their success. They have to correspond to the archetypal ideal that the public makes of them. If they are not able to do that, the constructed image is destroyed. Only very few celebrities can live a life separate from their image. If they manage to do that they are no longer stars -- they are heroes.

Who are you thinking of?
Nelson Mandela. Mikhail Gorbachev, whom I was lucky enough to meet. Also Mother Teresa.

Nobody from show business?
I can't think of anybody, I'm sorry.

Maybe Madonna?
Madonna is a perfectionist. Unbelievably disciplined, unbelievably intelligent, always reinventing herself. People like her like experimenting, even if they can't really grasp the extent of their experiments.

Is it healthy to always want to reinvent yourself?
That relates to the nature of life itself. I am from a place where people believe in transformation, so yes. Development leads to awareness.

And satisfaction leads to what? Standstill?
Too much certainty does, indeed, result in sluggishness. I myself do not waste emotional energy on excitement and drama, but I am also not phlegmatic. I feel a so-called divine dissatisfaction, without which there wouldn't be development. Anybody who feels complete happiness has to be senile. I believe that there is a creative solution to every problem. And I believe in a quote by Albert Einstein: no problem can be solved on the level of awareness on which it emerged.

Please explain that.
All problems in this world have emerged on the level of collective awareness. So we need to move to the next level. Distinguished intellectuals from CG Jung to Albert Einstein have said that. So I am not telling you news. But it takes a long time until people realise the meaning in it.

As long as our collective awareness doesn't change there will be war, terrorism, poverty and destruction of the environment. It is our collective failure, but everybody can decide for him -- or herself to change that and move to a higher level of awareness. That has been my conviction for 30 years. Story of my life.

So what the world lacks is awareness?
Exactly. The lack is the reason for selfishness narcissism, overestimation of the own character. That is why many people are unhappy and lonely.

But your guidance books, which have been sold in millions, promise a guide to individual happiness and success, right? Is that contemporary?
Sure, why wouldn't it be?

The French, for instance, are discovering their excitement for social engagement: the polemic pamphlet "Indignez-vous!" ("People, rebel!"), in which 93-year-old Stephane Hessel calls for peaceful battle against financial capitalism, is flying off the shelves.

I do not know the pamphlet, but on impulse I would oppose that kind of thinking. Anger is not a good solution because anger only creates more anger. Moral indignation, even if the intentions are good, remain indignation. I stick with Gandhi: be the change that you want to see in the world. People, do something! Change! That will change the world.

So that is what one can learn from your $2,000 workshops at the Chopra Center in California?
You learn how to reach a higher level of awareness. You do yoga, you meditate, you learn about Ayurveda. You learn how to activate the inner institution, your own power of creativity, how to make aware decisions. Awareness makes everyone of us the decider over his own environment and even health. Everybody is a creator of the universe.

On what exactly are your teachings based?
On the knowledge of the Indian religion Vedanta, but I also use general philosophy and modern knowledge about biology. Most people believe that our awareness were a accessory of biology. I believe the opposite: awareness influences our biology, including the nerve system. Focusing our awareness can even heal.

You believe in so-called quantum healing. So you believe that a change in awareness can result in a change of the body. "Happy thoughtsu00a0-- happy molecules," right?
That is a simplifying definition that I issued thirty years ago. Okay, let me explain: the body is not a structure but a process that can be influenced. If a child isn't taken care of, it will grow to be a more fearful and more vulnerable person. Stress and unhappiness can lead to depression and heart diseases.

Via the limbic system our emotions are connected to the brain. But when you meditate you can see the positive effect on the limbic system, they can be measured. There is even research about the effect of meditation on the length of telomeres, which are the end parts of the chromosomes, which again influence the biological age.

So meditation and changes in awareness can heal diseases and stop us from ageing?
Please: look at me. I am 64.

You look very well for your age. Maybe that has something to do with good genes and not only daily meditation...
You regulate your genes yourself! Awareness even influences the genes of which people think that they were deterministic.

So if everybody is the creator and director of his/her own happiness and health: do you believe that it is one's own fault to lose a job or have cancer?
You want easy answers and they don't exist. I'll give you the complicate answer: yes, it is our collective karma. If somebody suffers from cancer because we all polluted our environment, dumped hormones and dirt in our world, then that can have consequences. We are all responsible.

Your opinion has won you the satirical Nobel Prize for Physics, along with the angry accusations from scientists of fueling the fake hope of sick people. You have been called a charlatan. Biologist Richard Dawkins called your work "hocus-pocus."
I am an enemy of reason to him. I recently invited him for a discussion -- he wouldn't come!

You do seem a little upset now.
No, criticism does no longer offend me nowadays. Twenty years ago that would have been different.

Your company generates billions in sales. Your homepage offers a solution to diets and relationships, you even sell spiritual apps for the road. Modern man's desperation seems to be a cash cow.
I did found the Chopra Center, but I only own twenty per cent of the shares nowadays. I sort of left it behind. I spend the rest of my time on writing, lecturing or working for my charity Chopra Foundation. And do you know what? In America people do not apologise for being successful. That's the American Dream! America's biggest industries are porn and weapons. Why would we be ashamed of helping people with our products?

When did you come to America?
In 1970. Literally with empty pockets because my wife Rita and I spent the last 100 dollars at the Moulin Rouge during our visit to Paris.

What could you get there for 100 dollars in those days?
Oh, champagne and a lot of fun. After all we had been newlyweds.

You have the schedule of a manager and you are on the road 50 per cent of the year to tell other people about your mission of reflection and entirety. Isn't that a weird personal balance?
Not at all. My body is on the road. I don't go anywhere myself. I refill my freshness-tank for two hours every day, while meditating. I feel fresh and calm.

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